tributehub

A lot has been said behind-the-scenes about what occurred earlier today on this forum. I would like to set the record straight (albeit from my point of view) so that everyone has the benefit of understanding what occurred. I will try to present the facts (as I understand them) separate from my opinion on the situation, which I will put at the bottom of this message.


Towards the end of the Handwriting Experts Required thread in the "Off-Topic" section of the forum, larry posted the following:


After larry posted that, some people continued to post, and some slight "off topic" jests were made by others.

In response to one (or some) of these, Lorna replied in the thread with the following:


Despite being American, I'm somewhat familiar with different vernacular from around the world, and understood that Lorna was laughing/snickering in response to the earlier postings.

Here in the U.S. recently, we've had some celebrities get into trouble (publicly) after they used a word that was very close to the one that Lorna said...basically, take the 's' off of it. While fully understanding what Lorna said, I decided to reply in the thread indicating that she might want to be careful about using that same term here in the U.S. (I apologize for not being able to provide a direct quote of my reply, but you'll see in a moment why this is not possible.) This reply was meant mostly in jest, but I also wanted to mix in a small bit of 'public awareness' to the recent happenings here in the U.S.

Lorna replied, basically indicating that she did not understand the reference I was making/referring to.

I then replied back stating what I indicated above, that a couple celebrities had gotten in trouble recently, and I provided links to news stories at CNN and another news site in relation to Michael Richards (Kramer, of Seinfeld fame) and Andy Dick (of Newsradio and other TV/movie fame). I believe the links were:

Michael Richards:
www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/11/20/ri...l?section=cnn_latest

Andy Dick:
metromix.chicagotribune.com/news/celebri...ec07,1,5979725.story

This was the extent of my postings through the morning here in the U.S.

From what I understand, larry posted a reply (which I never saw).

Shortly afterwards, I received the following PM from Nick:


My reply to Nick:


After I sent this, I discovered that Nick had removed the postings on his own without giving me the opportunity to even decide on my own if they should be removed or not. These posting can not be retrieved; once deleted, they are gone?forever. Included in the deleted postings were posts by larry and Lorna, if not others as well.

I am not including Nick's full reply that I received next, only because of references to other members on this forum:



First, for anyone who may want to call me a hypocrite for posting something after indicating in the mentioned thread that I would not be returning: If it weren't for a few very senior members of this forum contacting me and asking me to reconsider leaving, I would have never visited this site again. I had every intention of not returning to this forum, but their messages made me consider giving things one more chance. This message is that chance.

Some of my opinions are already stated above in my message to Nick, and those opinions have not changed.

What occurred here was wrong and display of poor judgment in moderation. In particular, the following tests should have been used to determine how 'deletable' the messages were:

1) Was the post in the right location?
- Yes and no. The topic I presented certainly didn't deal with the Handwriting Analysis discussion anymore, but neither did some of the posts immediately before mine which were not deleted. In keeping with some other threads and how discussions evolve into other topics, this occurrence certainly doesn't appear to be any different than many other threads on the overall forum.

A quote from Nick that can be found elsewhere on this forum:


2) Was the post profane or racist in any way?
- No. I did not post any profanity whatsoever, nor did I make any racist statements or express any racist sentiments.

3) Was the post obscene?
- No. Nor did it link to any obscene content.

4) Was I attacking someone, or flame-baiting them into a fight?
- No. I have the utmost respect for everyone on this forum. Except Ben, at times (when he beats me on the Xbox 360...those rare times I'm on!)

5) Was I attacking the forum in general, or the band?
- No.

6) Was I posting something illegal or encouraging illegal activities in any way?
- No.

The topic I brought up is a relevant, current topic, especially here in the U.S. and I was treating it as such. And it's something that the rest of the world may or may not know or be aware of that is occurring here. Race relations are still very sensitive, and this is a current 'hot' button here in the U.S. I feel discussions about topics like this are great for keeping people educated about not just racial cultural differences, but also national cultural differences, and the sensitivities that we need to maintain to each.

Unfortunately, due to the posts being deleted permanently, the discussions swing away from the topic that was brought up and now the spotlight shines on how this forum operates and moderates its users. And that's a shame, because there are certainly more important things to discuss in this world.

Since the postings can not be recovered, as I originally indicated they should be, in lieu of their recovery, I believe a sincere, public apology from Nick is owed to myself, Lorna, larry, and anyone else who had their postings removed in relation to this incident. I also believe that clear, consistent forum rules should be posted that clearly indicate when a moderator will delete posts.

As one of the senior members who pm'd you to reconsider leaving us I must say I am disappointed in this post. I have to go to work now so I may give it a more detailed response later. All I would say is that I am sure Nick tried to resolve this in PM and he also responded on the forum so I think your demand for a public apology is unreasonable. In trying to back the moderator into a corner you may find you are backing yourself into a corner. It is not too late to consider again the fact that misunderstandings do happen from time to time and it is sometimes best to put these behind us for the greater good.

I don't feel the need to demand an apology, I also said "snigger" and not "sniggers" and I by no means meant for anyone to leave off the s. That sort of thing would not even enter my head. By what you said afterwards you were implying something racist made out of a purely innocent word. I know you weren't meaning I was being racist and I knew what you meant by posting what you did. I, like larry, just wanted to know why you would feel the need to bring up something like that.

I am bemused.  No need for apologies to me.

In the words of the great Tony Blair (is this right? - ed), "I think it's time to draw line under this and move on".

How sad this sorry episode has become ?
            We have a history of winding each other up.We insult each other in the most friendly of ways, certain amongst us write a great deal of trash (mostly me)
          But in the 9 months that this den of iniquity has been in existence we have never had such a fall out as we are witness to now.
                      I will openly give my point of view( after all I am a grumpy old sod !)
            Nobody owes anybody an apology...we are all different  and misunderstandings will from time to time occur.
                    As larry says lets just move on.
      Membership of this particular corner of cyberspace is not compulsory. So if you really do believe that a major injustice has taken place then by all means go elsewhere.

Andy

I think we need a sense of proportion here. As a small group of people with a shared interest we have taken the conscious decision to be relatively disorganised and ungoverned. Publishing and making people conform to rules would be contrary to that ethos. From time to time, however, a bit of light moderation is required and whenever that happens we don't get out the rule book and apply tests, we just do whatever we think is necessary. If we get it wrong from time to time I hope people are grown up enough to accept that.

You have requested a sincere and public apology. Yesterday afternoon I posted: "I apologise if any offence has been caused and sincerely hope that nobody feels it necessary to leave the forum." I therefore consider that duty to have already been discharged before you started this topic. If you don't consider that to be sufficient then I guess we're going to have to get along without you. We don't do tantrums on here.

On a point of clarification, the posts were removed at the request of one of the forum members to whom you are suggesting I should also apologise. Never a good idea to publish private messages unless you've seen all sides of the conversation.

End of.

Nick